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枫下沙龙 / 梦想天空 / I agree that it might be a triumph for De Valmont, as he ultimately turned himself from a long-time established bachelor into a guy ready for marriage, yet coming down to De Tourvel, I seem not able to be as certain as you are.It is a triumph for De Tourvel because she, by surrendering her feminine beauty and impeccable innocence, comes into
the_dumb_one (dumb_and_dumber)
possession of a devil's soul. It is also a triumph for Valmont in the sense that he, through his abnegation of freedom and free will as well, has actually defeated the creator himself by seducing the most impossible object of desire.
-wantbaby(：）);
2017-4-13
{383}
(#10738279@0)
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Cause till this point, I'm still not as certain as you are that she died by sacrificing herself to the devoted and committed "love", NOT simply for the unbearable inner guilt.How can you get so certain about the reason of her death?
-wantbaby(：）);
2017-4-13
{57}
(#10738284@0)
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the other side of the door to heaven faces hell, because it is the only corridor through which we reach our true salvation. De Tourvel fell, but that is exactly what has completed her journey of feminine fulfillment, be it as a sinner or not.
-the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber);
2017-4-13
(#10738307@0)
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Excuse me. What's the wind direction right here right now at the ONLY corridor that you specified?Is it eastbound or westbound? ^_^
-wantbaby(：）);
2017-4-13
(#10738374@0)
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From Here to Eternity, to steal the movie title, although Sinatra is never my favorite at all.
-the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber);
2017-4-13
(#10738384@0)
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Does that mean being a sinner is the final leg to complete whatever journey it would be, and breach of the chasteness is the only solution that could fulfill her femininity? No other way around?
-wantbaby(：）);
2017-4-13
(#10738413@0)
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that is the prejudiced reading from the biased perspective of a sinner
-the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber);
2017-4-13
(#10738425@0)
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What's the unbiased perspective, then?
-wantbaby(：）);
2017-4-13
(#10738428@0)
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unfortunately I don't have one, for I strongly believe reading is interpretation, and hence destined to be "biased" or subjective.
-the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber);
2017-4-13
(#10738435@0)
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Do we have a victim here or not?
-wantbaby(：）);
2017-4-13
(#10738444@0)
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who would that poor victim be? considering the fact they both have given up what is deemed the most precious thing in the miserable life of us mundane beings, namely, life itself.
-the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber);
2017-4-13
(#10738463@0)
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Cecile?
-wantbaby(：）);
2017-4-13
(#10738545@0)
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Yes, she can be one. The cost of initialization is being victimized.
-the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber);
2017-4-13
(#10738623@0)
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Do you actually have some feelings for Cecile? I do, and at least some amount, if not necessarily enormous amount. Yet I'm quite confused about the purpose she might have served as a role in the work of art.
-wantbaby(：）);
2017-4-14
(#10739201@0)
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I took her as a figure in a coming of age story, only it was told a few hundred years back, and with a lot of heavy clothing on, and, of course, powder as wll.
-the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber);
2017-4-14
(#10739228@0)
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Shall I or could I think of your "a coming of age story " as a bit too much superficial? Seems that you may stay on the surface of the exploration, and not yet, or not at all get into the THING under the skin?
-wantbaby(：）);
2017-4-14
(#10739318@0)
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Whatever that THING might be?
-wantbaby(：）);
2017-4-14
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of course I could be superficial, or very superficial. that being said, coming of age is not always a trivial or frivolous topic. it has been recounted age after age. last year we justwatched "Paper Towns". A poignant coming of age story.
-the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber);
2017-4-14
{54}
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I can't help wondering the reason why FEMALE coming of age seems always such a phenomenal event from the point of view of the society, the entire society West or East? Why? Why such a big deal about it?
-wantbaby(：）);
2017-4-14
(#10739419@0)
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coming of age is a great deal for everyone, male as well as female. from that point on we begin the separation of me from them.
-the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber);
2017-4-14
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I'm not sure about the EVERYONE part, cause the society seems to have different interpretation of MALE and FEMALE, which might unfortunately lead us to the conclusion that coming of age is not universal,yet gender-oriented. Agree?
-wantbaby(：）);
2017-4-14
(#10739518@0)
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What is the purpose, if there is any indeed? Do we desperately need such a human casualty to manifest whatever the creator would like to manifest? What is the purpose, Mr. Dumb?
-wantbaby(：）);
2017-4-14
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Think along the line of modern sorority and fraternity. Then you may see the necessity of us being initialized "into" the world. The process of initialization is always cruel and painful, but that is how we come to ourselves as sinners.
-the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber);
2017-4-14
(#10739241@0)
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It's not that I'm not clear about the process of human initialization,and it's more about my confusion at the connection between Cecile's initialization and De Tourvel's breach of the chasteness,which you indicated as the must toward feminine fulfillment.
What is the connection, if there is any?
-wantbaby(：）);
2017-4-14
{104}
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Cecile's pristine innocence serves in contrast to illustrate the purgatory purity of De Tourvel's genuine womanhood.
-the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber);
2017-4-14
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Do you agree that Cecile actually IS De Tourvel, the PRE-De-Tourvel De Tourvel? Am I crazy by even taking this possibility into remote consideration?
-wantbaby(：）);
2017-4-14
(#10739418@0)
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yes and no. if that is the case, then Marquise de Merteuil can also be labeled as De Tourvel. it is true that the threefemale figures represent different facet of woman. yet De Tourvel, being the woman among women, goes beyond a simple mathematical sum of all.
-the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber);
2017-4-14
{141}
(#10739430@0)
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Not from my point of view. Weird or not,to me, Marquise de Merteuil is NOT a human being, yet a symbolic manifestation of hatred and revenge, and therefore, she is a THING, not a male or a female, which is the dividing moment for me,as a reader as well as one of the audience. How do you take it?
-wantbaby(：）);
2017-4-14
{63}
(#10739512@0)
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are you new to rolia? you did not see enough hatred here? no. De Merteuil is a human being just like everyone of us. and she is doing what exactly a "human" being is capable of doing and willing to do as well
-the_dumb_one(dumb_and_dumber);
2017-4-14
(#10739521@0)
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Depends upon how you define the word "new". I'm a long-time registrant, yet a short-time resident at Rolia, and perhaps not as regular as you are?
-wantbaby(：）);
2017-4-14
(#10739603@0)