CAS是把孩子还给父亲，没有把孩子还给她，她连家都不敢回。如果CAS真的把孩子还给她并结束了所有对这个家庭的迫害，她不会自杀，CAS并没有放过她，只是不得不不依法将他们违反法律程序所抓走的BABY还给父亲，还用BABY作人质，让孩子父亲签了一大堆难以承受的条件。 -fairness(直言执言) @SF湾区华人论坛:SF湾区枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of San Francisco

枫下茶话 / 社会 / 还是 loveblue的事件，真想知道现在怎么样啦？难道一个生命就这样凄惨地逝去拉吗？！真的没有说理的地方吗？还有，还是过去的观点，这个事件CAS有一定的责任，但最关键的地方是那个打电话告发的护士或者医生，整个悲剧的起因来自于他，因为他对CAS的误导，导致拉这个悲剧。 -goldensands(Dream); 2009-7-4 {114} (#5392475@0)
关键点在于他凭什么对他无能力诊断出来的一个症狀就猜测为虐待的证据呢？还推论母亲精神有问题，良心何在阿？医德何在阿？

Why did you think CAS has any responsibility on her death? Did she say "但是昨天那篇CAS每年死80个孩子的贴子导致了我精神崩毁"? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-4 (#5392606@0)
She also said "想想我在这些医生面前的表现也是非常的情绪化". The doctor had no choice and according to law, the doctor must call CAS if he had reasonable doubt that the baby might be in danger. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-4 {117} (#5392617@0)
How did the doctor misled CAS? or do you think the doctor should wait until a disaster happened like the Taiwan case?
http://news.chinatimes.com/2007Cti/2007Cti-News/2007Cti-News-Content/0,4521,5030843+112009062600208,00.html
1、没人说她虐待。虐待并不是唯一需要报告CAS的理由；2、精神有病是中国人习惯骂人的话，但事实上精神疾病也就是各种病里的一种，无需讳疾忌医。 -kqc(海市); 2009-7-4 {1008} (#5393100@0)
3、这个母亲之前的种种表现和逻辑的混乱以及她的医院阴谋论，都足以让很多人推断她有一定的思维失调。这个从之前论坛的帖子都可以看出来，没有什么良心何在不何在的。CAS帮母亲预约精神科门诊是帮助她尽早恢复正常。4、从她在伦敦精神病院治疗了一个月可以得知，这已经不仅仅是“推论”，而是事实。

最后，我还是认为，这既不是CAS的责任，也不是网友的责任，更不是当初报CAS的医生的责任。

CAS本身是否需要改进我不清楚，但是以此案例想扳倒CAS是不可能的，应该换个更有说服力的案子。在这件事里，虽然很多细节我们还无从得知，但是就所知道的情况而言，还是很容易明白的。之所以还有这么多争论，大概是：1、很多人因为种种原因（文化、心理、经历等）本来就不满CAS，借机发难；2、一些人对精神疾病缺乏认识，无法理解，或者认为是侮辱；3、有些人习惯把所有责任都推给社会；4、有的人先入为主，看贴不认真或者断章取义，这也是常有的。另外，不排除有些人天生就喜欢凑热闹挑事端。不管怎么说，我还是那句话，死者的亲属都不站出来的话，我们再在这里呐喊也没有用，因为细节只有他们清楚，也只有他们最有权利质疑和上诉。可是他们如果保持沉默，那么这个事情就只能这么过去了。

I hope this disaster can teach us at least 2 things, 1. the awarness of mental illness and 2. how to work with CAS -hkchan(0); 2009-7-4 {458} (#5393129@0)
As kqc pointed out, mental illness is just an illness. Nothing to be ashame of. And like a lot of illness, e.g. diabetes, high blood pressure, it cannot be cured but can be controlled. Patient has to take medicine every day and visit doctor for evaluation regularly. Family support is very important. So if you, your family, or your firends have mental problem, please don't try to hide the problem and find a doctor. Don't wait for another disaster!
说的好，支持ing。。。 -volley(悠悠); 2009-7-4 (#5393144@0)
我看过她的帖子，她说她和心理医生谈过啦，医生认为她神志正常。 -goldensands(Dream); 2009-7-5 {964} (#5393779@0)
至于她发帖子时所谓的逻辑问题，完全是在孩子被拿走后在网上求助的时候，其实那也不算什么毛病。我们生活中不是经常会有人因为紧张着急，失手打碎拉碗碟，或者忘记拉东西等等类似的失态行为吗？这种情况发生的时候，大家都会理解。为什么到拉她这里，就升格为精神疾病拉。难道就是因为小胳膊和大腿的关系吗？

至于送到精神病院接受治疗，我看到的是被警察送去的，不是她自愿的吧。

至于医院和医生的态度，这边的医生看病的原则是在认为你没病的基础上进一步诊断，这样自然会对loveblue的频繁探访厌烦不已，推置一边，认为她无理取闹。loveblue，来自完全不同的医疗体制的国度，自然无法理解，当然会有诸多的猜疑，因为实在无法理解医生的不理不睬。这种情况我们身边发生拉不少拉，一个朋友，腿都拄上拐杖拉，医生还是坚持不给做referal，23年后才终于见到拉骨科医生，结果骨裂已延伸至骨盆拉，大腿只能截肢拉。

试问一下，谁也不会相信23年的坚持，才换来一个正常应该很轻易就能得到的referal吧。

loveblue事件，大家都在用正常的思维来解释发生的一切，有没有想过其中的好多意外呢？正是诸多的意外才酿成拉这个悲剧。

Can you please show us the post that she said "她说她和心理医生谈过啦，医生认为她神志正常。" -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5393828@0)

"大家别这么说，我可能也要不行了，我刚感和两个心理医生做过评估，我是正常的..." loveblue -goldensands(Dream); 2009-7-6 (#5395507@0)

心理医生的评估应该具有说服力拉巴 -goldensands(Dream); 2009-7-6 (#5395510@0)

did she show it to CAS? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5396491@0)

应该不需要她给CAS看的。因为是在孩子被带走之后，应该是CAS作的referal，他们自然会收到评估结果的。 -goldensands(Dream); 2009-7-6 (#5397227@0)

i c, no wonder it was so fast! My friend took months before she could see her psycharist. If the report was favor her, then I really don't understand why she still went to England. I have to say it was a bad decision. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5397238@0)

But she said "昨天那篇CAS每年死80个孩子的贴子导致了我精神崩毁", "我真的疯傻了", "我老公和周围的人都说我神经不正常". And doctors in both Canada and England plus CAS workers were all on the same side. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5393830@0)

我们是不是也经常会说或者听到类似的抱怨（当然是中国人）：Dream的话真噎人，都快把我气疯啦。或者：俺家那位根本不支持俺，说俺有神经病，天天上网和Dream吵。呵呵 -goldensands(Dream); 2009-7-6 (#5395511@0)

I am Chinese and I know a lot of Chinese but I rarely heard anyone said anything similiar. And I never said it. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5395664@0)

你不觉得你这种说法暴露你的思维能力吗？那条“CAS每年死80个孩子”(实际是每年死90个孩子)“的消息来源于省政府，所有媒体均大肆报道了省政府的那篇报告，电视，各报纸均作为头条消息报道，中文TV，报纸也都报道。 -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5395559@0)

What is my 思维能力? I just cut & paste her own words. I didn't add my own comment. And "所有媒体均大肆报道了" she obviously did not read the newspaper and not know it until someone on Rolia told her. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5395673@0)

那天人们走在街上，到处可看到各个保箱橱窗都有那条消息及一位被布蒙住嘴巴的寄养儿童的头像。如果那条消息能使人精神崩溃以至自杀，那安省那些天企不要成了”疯人院“，”万人坑“？没有人会因为那条消息自杀。 -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5395564@0)

"没有人会因为那条消息自杀", how can you be sure that loveblue was not the first one? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5395678@0)

Do you know how many children CAS seized in a year? If CAS's action was the primary reason behind the victim's death, should we see more disasters every year? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5395686@0)

如果再由此将她的自杀归罪于网友，就更无道理。难道播映”南京大屠杀“电影的放映员们要为南京大屠杀负责？ -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5395566@0)

I didn't 将她的自杀归罪于网友. I just put all her words togethers to support the fact that her death may not be due to CAS. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5395679@0)

You have been doing it repeatly and on purpose(not accidently). People can see your mind clearly. -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5396179@0)

I would keep doing it until people can show some evidence to support their accuse. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5396451@0)

她是在看到这条消息一个多月以后才自杀的。如果你想要理解导致她自杀的内因(心理因素)，可以借助于对于文革中由于被冤屈，迫害而自杀的元帅，大将，文豪及千千万万不堪屈辱，迫害的自杀者的心理研究。 -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5395574@0)

如果你要了解导致她自杀的外因，你去CAS实习，从跟随INTAKE去抓小孩开始，一直到小孩21岁CAS不能从政府拿到钱而结束监管，去听CAS WORKER的诬陷家长的卑鄙谎言，看他们的迫害家庭的横蛮行为，读他们所定的那些践踏人权的”条件们“。。。。。。 -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5395590@0)

I don't have a MSW, so CAS won't take me. Did you 实习 at CAS? How come you are so sure that CAS WORKER诬陷家长? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5395683@0)

CAS中没有MSW的大有人在，占大多数。 -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5395698@0)

so how many CAS field worker did not have MSW? What is the percentage? I guess their IT worker / reception does not require MSW? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5395983@0)

Less than 2% staff have MSW in CAS, some of them even are incapable for doing simple math. If you join CAS, your IQ will be on top there. But I worry about your EQ will not match their requirements. -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5396219@0)

My IQ and EQ is my personal information, and none of them is the concern of this discussion, i.e. what did CAS do wrong in this incident. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5396456@0)

You will not be capable to grab enough kids, to make enough work hours from your "clients". I do not see you have EQ to earn $21000 over time payment per year. You may like majority, leaving CAS in your first year. -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5396224@0)

Now, my EQ is suddenly the focus. Would my EQ in anyway help the victim or her family? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5396495@0)

If you worry about your qualification, you can ask May11 for help. His uncle is a leader of CAS, he can help you to get into through back door. -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5396227@0)

why don't you show us what you know? Tell us the real stuffs or better tell CBS about what you know. It would help than just accusing CAS here. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5396546@0)

"她是在看到这条消息一个多月以后才自杀的" Good agument! Can I use the same logic that CAS seized her baby and returned her baby more than 1 month before she committed suicide, so CAS should have no responsibility as well. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5395662@0)

CAS是把孩子还给父亲，没有把孩子还给她，她连家都不敢回。如果CAS真的把孩子还给她并结束了所有对这个家庭的迫害，她不会自杀，CAS并没有放过她，只是不得不不依法将他们违反法律程序所抓走的BABY还给父亲，还用BABY作人质，让孩子父亲签了一大堆难以承受的条件。 -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5395684@0)

what are those 堆难以承受的条件? Did CAS not allow her to go home? How did CAS 迫害家庭? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5395691@0)
事实上只要她在家一天，随时都有可能因为违反保证而再次失去孩子。她生前最后时光所遭受的精神折磨，也许只有亲亲宝贝里的那些母亲们才可以理解。 -oldyou(); 2009-7-6 (#5395696@0)

随时都有可能因为违反保证而再次失去孩子. Of course, this 保证 is there for a purpose, to protect the baby. Until she can prove she is capable to take the baby herself. But the victim said she had proof from 2 心理医生 that she was normal, -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 {151} (#5396004@0)
that should be more than enough. I don't know why she didn't go to the court to defend herself. Instead she ran away to England with her elder son.

越说越没人味了。你当爹的时候有没去CAS prove you were capable to take the baby and yourself -oldyou(); 2009-7-6 (#5396028@0)

No, I didn't. And you point is? Did police sent me to mental hospital? Did my family doctor call CAS? Did CAS worker conclude that I was not suitable to take care my child? Did any psycharist think I should be in mental hospital? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 {29} (#5396052@0)
You compared apple to orange!

她确实不是你的同类，所以收起你的假惺惺，继续当你的CAS五毛吧。 -oldyou(); 2009-7-6 (#5396089@0)

it is your trcik. When you can't answer a question, the you said something totally irrelevant. The truth is that you have no evidence to sue or even accuse CAS. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5396464@0)
everyone who is against your point would be classified as CAS五毛! Simple and naive! -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5396954@0)

她离开家的目的是让她的老二尽快回家，老大免被抓走。这是小孩被CAS抓走后，家庭通常采用的办法。CAS已要求她去CAS指定的医生哪里做鉴定，CAS会将他们的“证据”给他们的医生。只要有一位医生说她有问题，涉及儿童保护，法官怕担风险，不会违背CAS的意愿。 -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5396460@0)

Did she tell you it was her intent? Did CAS tell her that she had to go to England as a condition of her baby to return home? How do you know so much thing about CAS? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 {230} (#5396515@0)
So you implied doctor and judge all have to take order from CAS and they don't dare to give their idenpendent view. I guess again you won't have any evidence to support your point. It is all speculation until you can prove it.
又在胡说八道，你的思维怎么会和精神病的人一样，真是郁闷 -may11(May); 2009-7-6 (#5397232@0)

CAS是最不透明的机构。“要想知道梨子的味道，就要变革梨子，亲口尝一尝。” -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5396475@0)

CAS是最不透明的机构! Any example? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5396517@0)
Did you work with CAS? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5396957@0)

这个很难吗，可以请个保姆，要老公干吗，老公有没有开导他，又是钱的问题，如果我是那个老公，我会在老婆康复以前找个人在我上班的时间看小孩，或者送小孩去学校，让老婆放心，反正你们都想那个老公死，俺也不客气了，大家一起挖内情吧，把那个老公整死 -may11(May); 2009-7-6 (#5397239@0)
如果你刚刚把你老婆从精神病医院接回家，你会放心单独让你老婆照顾你的BABY吗，如果你是一个合格的丈夫，父亲CAS会卷入你的家庭吗，如果你不想逼死哪个父亲就放过他吧，你所有质问CAS的问题，确实只有一个问题，为什么CAS会进入那个家庭的 -may11(May); 2009-7-6 (#5397271@0)

I guess there is no definition what a 合格的丈夫，父亲 is. I tried my best but I still have a lot of short fall to be a 合格的丈夫，父亲. However, CAS's involvemnet into this family may not be anyone's fault. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 {1013} (#5397344@0)
There is no single cause for postpartum depression. It may be her own DNA, it may be due to her hormone, or it can be due to her stressful life. I know a few families who have children with autism. My friends are very lcuky that they other helpers. But not sure if this is the case for the poor mother.

Her husband may not have the knowledge and experience to deal with postpartum depression. They didn't ask their doctor to help. A lot of people think depression is just temporary blue that would disappear itself. I don't know all these stuff until recently.

If the mother had postpartum depression; it was natural that CAS to step into this family. CAS just wanted to make sure the children were safe. No CAS worker wanted the mother to die! Especially if they received the report from the psycharists that the mother was mentally OK; they didn't not the stress would kill the mother.

But I still don't understand why the mother ran away, when the psycharists' report were on her side.

我也不能理解那个家庭的行为，非常好，你也不能理解，但是其他网友都非常理解她，证明我们是正常人，他们都需要看医生，吃药 -may11(May); 2009-7-6 (#5397371@0)
合格的丈夫父亲非常简单就是你可以保护自己的家庭，如果老婆有病，作为丈夫应该负责保护这个家庭，你不能保护你的孩子，母亲有病，这就是CAS卷入那个家庭的关键 -may11(May); 2009-7-6 (#5397380@0)

如果都写出来，可以写一本书。去实地考察考察吧，你会了解到的。这就是为什么绝大多数人在CAS工作不到半年就离开了，剩下多是特殊少见的人。无论经济如何差，CAS总是在招人的原因。这也是为什么我安省成为”高虐儿省“的原因。 -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5395591@0)

how many CAS cases did you 实地考察 to come to this conclusion? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5395989@0)

Do you have any proof or evidence on what you said? Do you know who called the police in England? Do you know what the professional psycharist said on her report? She also said "我在这些医生面前的表现也是非常的情绪化" -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 {65} (#5393831@0)
Do you think this might be the reason that the doctor called CAS?

她被诬陷虐待孩子,说她小孩流鼻血是她抓的。她在本坛的第一贴及CHINASMILE.NET的求助贴中都提到. -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5397156@0)

Can you please send me the link? I am not familiar how to use search in Rola. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5397173@0)
this is the one I saw. "诬陷我虐待孩子" I believe she was talking about hospital but not the CAS. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5397178@0)

你说又能把CAS怎么样，人家可以有一百个狗屁专家证明流程没错。 -bbbb(鞭炮薄饼--灌水区里好); 2009-7-4 (#5393111@0)

Even the victim said "我老公和周围的人都说我神经不正常". It wasn't the一百个CAS 专家 who make such comment. And instead of just complaining about CAS, can you do something constructive and prove CAS was wrong? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-4 (#5393117@0)

这个坛子已经没什么可看，没什么可问的了，天天就是htchan,ontarioCAS,kgc,oceanblue,may11等几个CAS公关宣传员在折藤，（可能他们就是一两个人注册了多个账户）这里快变成CAS的网站了。 -maninc(maninc); 2009-7-4 (#5393123@0)

纳税人付钱给他们，用来跟我们“公关”，真是一个神奇的组织。 -szs11(Hedge); 2009-7-4 (#5393133@0)

How does CAS use tax payer's money to do 公关? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-4 (#5393139@0)

For example, CAS 50 cents party. -oldyou(); 2009-7-4 (#5393200@0)

What is it? I can't even google with it, can you please provide a link. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-4 (#5393219@0)

表面上看是CAS雇员“义务”做宣传，其实所有这些最终都是用工资来体现出来。间接付钱也是钱吧？ -szs11(Hedge); 2009-7-4 (#5393220@0)

first I never get a penny from CAS and second do you think ontariocas would get a bonus for his support on Rolia. And how about Rollor and cruiser99; do you think they got $$ incentive to organize the meeting for Chinese community. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-4 {136} (#5393226@0)
All the works I did here is not for CAS but the Chinese community. And I don't get paid from both parties (CAS and Chinese community).
And last, what did ontariocas say here was not truth? what did he 宣传? Do you think telling the truth is 宣传? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-4 (#5393231@0)

Please take it easy. I understand you might not be happy. But sometimes, people tend to speculate. -iwantcar_majia(iwantcar); 2009-7-4 (#5393296@0)

I just want to help my community. And this is what they called me? CAS公关宣传员? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-4 (#5393355@0)

Do you have any proof or evidence want to help my community? -maninc(maninc); 2009-7-5 (#5393859@0)

I email this incident to my MPP, Minister of Children, media from newspaper to TV. I also signed for the petition to support Bill 93. And I tried to stop people to spread myth, rumor and partial facts among our community. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5394032@0)

Do you have any proof or evidence I email this incident to my MPP, Minister of Children, media from newspaper to TV? -maninc(maninc); 2009-7-5 (#5394039@0)

Yes, I do. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5394042@0)

We have not seen it. -maninc(maninc); 2009-7-5 (#5394050@0)

Becuase I didn't show it to you. Why did you want to see it? and why did I want to show it to you? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5394055@0)

Because you use that method so often. It is unfair if no one use your method on you. -maninc(maninc); 2009-7-5 (#5394062@0)

that was different. A lot of Rolian accused CAS and I just asked them to prove it. Did I accuse anyone or any organization? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5394074@0)
And I don't need anyone to believe me. But I want no other people to believe accuse without evidence. This is the difference. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5394076@0)

Do you have any proof or evidence you tell the truth? -maninc(maninc); 2009-7-5 (#5393858@0)

I didn't tell anything because I don't know what the truth is and this is why I asked for an inquiry and I am neutral until I know all the pieces of truth. I only asked questions so that I can find the truth. Do you think you are smart? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5394040@0)

"I didn't tell anything" -- that is not truth, the truth is: you said "I email this incident to my MPP, Minister of Children, media from newspaper to TV?", you said " I only have 1 ID".and you did not give out your proof or evidence. -maninc(maninc); 2009-7-5 (#5394058@0)

those are my private email and I already shared in some of my prvevious post. You should be able to find them somewhere. But you still haven't answered why I need to prove it to you. Did I accuse anyone or organization? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5394069@0)

Those are not enough to prove you sent them. -maninc(maninc); 2009-7-5 (#5394077@0)

that is fine if you don't believe me. Becuase I don't need you to believe me. But if you can't answer my questions, then no one would belive your accuse to CAS as well as well. This is fair, no one believe both you and me! Great! -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5394085@0)

"I didn't tell anything" -- (◆▲■● ！！你说谎了！！ ●■▲◆) That is a lie. 你说谎了,没法相信你了。That is not truth. the truth is: you said "I email this incident to my MPP, Minister of Children, media from newspaper to TV?"... -maninc(maninc); 2009-7-5 (#5394104@0)

Great argument! Is that the best you can do? I hope you can use the same method to help the victim's family to prove CAS was wrong. Good luck! -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5394110@0)
And I would continue to question your accuse if there is no proof. You can't stop me! -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5394112@0)

我并没有非要让你失去工作，可怜的人。 -maninc(maninc); 2009-7-5 (#5394117@0)

"可怜的人", I would pass the title to you or the husband of the victim. But the key thing is if you can prove CAS was wrong. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 {209} (#5394135@0)
If the best you can achieve is turn to me and tried to prove I lie, this is very poor of you, switching the focus from CAS to me. Is it becuase you cannot find any solid evidence that CAS had any wrong doing?

谢谢你！！！俺只是一个打累跋工的垃圾移民，CAS是混的好的人去的 -may11(May); 2009-7-4 (#5393290@0)

After ontariocas told us how much their IT workers earned, I really want to join their IT department. My AS/400 skill is rusty but I would pick it up. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-4 (#5393359@0)

Unlike other rolians who think 没什么可问, they assumed they had the answers. I asked a lot of questions but unfortunately, most Rolians cannot give me the answer becuase they don't have the asnwer as well. They just blindly accuse CAS. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-4 {431} (#5393136@0)
And they don't care to think about other concerns, i.e. mental illness. Is that how you can avoid future disaster?

Did I 宣传 for CAS? Tell me how many babies or children died before you think we need an organization like CAS? 1? 10? 100? 1,000? How about children who are sexually, physically or emotionally abused? Are you going to protect them?

Again, I ased more and more questions. Let's see how many got answer?
http://news.chinatimes.com/2007Cti/2007Cti-News/2007Cti-News-Content/0,4521,5030843+112009062600208,00.html
I don't know the rest but I only have 1 ID. How do you know there is 一两个人注册了多个账户? Another speculation?assumption? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-4 (#5393141@0)

Do you have any proof or evidence you only have 1 ID ? -maninc(maninc); 2009-7-5 (#5393860@0)

不知所谓！！！你以为自己是条什么葱啊，有几个ID管你P 事，你又代表谁，咱们就支持CAS，让你连5毛都赚不到！！！！ -may11(May); 2009-7-5 (#5393879@0)

I know it is stupid question but what is 5毛? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5394105@0)

hahaha 5 毛就是如果你为一个机构发贴，每次发一个就可以得5毛钱，好像那个什么反对CAS的组织，你帮助他们宣传，他们的组织就可以给你5毛钱，哈哈哈不过相不相信由你，不要太认真了 -may11(May); 2009-7-5 (#5394142@0)

LOL! So I must have a big pay check from CAS by the end of this month. After all the questions I posed on this forum! My initial guess was something to do with Chairman Mao. Stupid me! -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5394147@0)

Yes, I do. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5394034@0)

Do you have any proof or evidence you do? -maninc(maninc); 2009-7-5 (#5394041@0)

Yes, I do. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5394043@0)

You did not show any of them. -maninc(maninc); 2009-7-5 (#5394046@0)

Becuase I didn't show it to you. Why did you want to see it? and why did I want to show it to you? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5394056@0)

Because you use that method so often. It is unfair if no one use your method on you -maninc(maninc); 2009-7-5 (#5394064@0)

Great! No one believe my word becuase you ask question that I cannot answer. So I will keep asking question on those accuse so that no one would believe those accuse until they can proven. I can't prove it so don't believe me! -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 {216} (#5394094@0)
But please also do NOT believe those people who cannnot prove their accuse. This is my main focus, I don't mind if people believe me or not. I only hope people can question if they see accuse without any evidence.

唉，肉联讨论老是搞这一套，有没有点新意的。只要跟你意见不同的，那就肯定是对方官方派来的奸细；只要发言的ID多点，那就是少数人用的不同马甲；只要参与讨论多点，那就是一个帖子收了5毛钱的好处。。。 -kqc(海市); 2009-7-4 {86} (#5393584@0)
但是拜托你至少把ID的拼写也别给弄错吧。这样粗心，所发表的言论可信性实在难让人信服。。。

"一个帖子收了5毛钱" Was that ever happened? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5394199@0)

我不知道这是不是真的，我就看时政里那两派就喜欢互骂对方是收了５毛钱来发帖。。。 -kqc(海市); 2009-7-5 {6} (#5394469@0)
很可笑

这是国内五毛的行情，如果在加拿大也以这样的价钱请五毛，恐怕连乞丐都请不到。这里的五毛应该是年薪或月薪的，而不会是像国内那样拿计件工资 -91109(葡萄紫的大海); 2009-7-5 (#5394486@0)

谢谢你的抬举, 在这事情之前, 我并不知道CAS是什么组织, 但有跟随LOVEBLUE当时发的贴. 我实话实说, 悲剧就是悲剧, 责任不在CAS, 而且对这事情我也已经说过了, 我SHUT UP, 再说也没意思. -oceandeepblue(blue); 2009-7-5 (#5393777@0)

我手里有她先生的电话，却一直没有鼓足勇气去打搅他。我通过网络搜索找到了她生前的牧师，也是她先生现在的主要朋友，牧师说，他现在的状况，一两年内能够振作起来就不错了。比起追究一个以政府、法制作为强大后盾的机构的责任，抚养两个孩子是他最大的寄托。 -oldyou(); 2009-7-4 {82} (#5393210@0)
这里的CAS五毛们说得也对，只要他不开腔，CAS就非常无辜，他们不仅合法，而且手法专业。

How is the elder son doing? Do you know how old he is? Can you suggest to the father or someone he know to google about acupuncture autism? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-4 (#5393216@0)
how about the baby? Did 牧师 say anything about the little baby? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-4 (#5393228@0)
哪个爸爸如果压力太大了就把2个孩子交给CAS寄养2年，调节自己，努力工作，为他们找个新妈妈，在这里找新妈妈没戏了，去国内找吧 -may11(May); 2009-7-4 (#5393284@0)

你还是先去CAS找找自己的干爹妈吧，小时候中国没有，苦了你了。 -oldyou(); 2009-7-4 (#5393364@0)

看你每天比祥林嫂还要祥林嫂，真是佩服你了，不如你当他们的干爹 -may11(May); 2009-7-4 (#5393470@0)

就是因为有拉你这种人，中国人自身才没有凝聚力，所谓的一盘散沙。中国人在哪个国家都是最大的少数族裔，在哪里又都是最受欺负的群体，就是有你们这些人，同胞真的有难的时候不是群策群力解决问题，而是指责猜忌。什么时候，你才能真正的称得上是个中国人呢？！ -goldensands(Dream); 2009-7-5 {124} (#5393757@0)
自己人出啦问题，第一反应就是一定是自身的问题，然后再鸡蛋里挑挑骨头，怎么也能找出问题的，人无完人，菩萨还有跑肚放屁的时候呢。

被苍蝇叮，因为你是烂肉，被CAS盯上的人有几个是好东西，普通正常平民百姓谁会和CAS打交道，受CAS迫害的站出来，严重有病！！！站出来的控诉结果都是一群精神病，吸毒，酗酒，变态，种大麻的人，恭喜你成为这些人的代言人 -may11(May); 2009-7-5 (#5393899@0)

提醒您一下，我说的是诸多的错误判断造成的这个悲剧，可不是泛泛的包括所有的。我们是在谈一个误操作引起的后果，可不是指责所有的工作。脑子反应迟钝怎么的。 -goldensands(Dream); 2009-7-6 (#5395494@0)
还有阿，你胆子蛮大的阿，你竟敢骂CAS是苍蝇，看来你内心里对CAS充满拉厌恶之情啊。 -goldensands(Dream); 2009-7-6 (#5395496@0)

"自己人出啦问题，第一反应就是一定是自身的问题" Did the victim have any problem? Who said she might have problem? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 {1192} (#5394180@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛1. She said "我老公和周围的人都说我神经不正常"
2. She also said "我在这些医生面前的表现也是非常的情绪化"
3. The doctor (or nurse) who called CAS. Why did they call CAS?
4. The CAS workers who took away her baby. why did she make such decision?
5. Who called police in England? Why did he decide to call police?
6. Did Police in England decide to send her to mental hospital, why did they think she should be send to mental hospital?
7. Did The doctor in England's mental hospital decide that she had to stay at the hospital? Why did they think she had to take immediate medical treatment?

Why did all these professional people from 2 countries make similar decision? And last,

8. After the baby was taken by CAS, did the husband defend for her that she didn't have any mental problem and were fit to take care the baby?

You can continue to point finger to all these professional people but can you help the victim's family and avoid similar disaster to happen again? If you can provide evidence to the victim's family that some professional people did something wrong in this incident, the family may be able to receive some compensation. Otherwise............更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

Shut up! You! -suwl(狗尾巴草); 2009-7-4 (#5393476@0)

什么名字不可以起，要起“狗尾巴草”既然是狗尾巴草就应该Shut up! -may11(May); 2009-7-4 (#5393495@0)

疯狗一条，CAS 应该带走的是你的孩子。 -suwl(狗尾巴草); 2009-7-4 (#5393501@0)

不会的，孩子他舅舅是CAS的大领导！！！ -may11(May); 2009-7-4 (#5393508@0)

你这种人加入CAS倒是绝配。 -szs11(Hedge); 2009-7-4 (#5393509@0)

现在才知道重要，晚了 -may11(May); 2009-7-4 (#5393474@0)
既然如此，请他尽管开腔。就算没钱请律师，接受媒体采访总可以。如果真认为自己受了很大的不公道，多数人应该都想追究到底吧。那么多热心华人也可以捐款支持，为其他受了CAS"迫害”的人伸张正义，免得以后别人再受荼毒。 -kqc(海市); 2009-7-4 {205} (#5393594@0)
但是需要孩子他爹自己亲自站出来，不能以任何人的臆测代替他的言论。既然坛子里有这么多受过CAS害的人，为什么不出来亲身说法。老油不如组织个华人反CAS集体，看有没有办法把CAS扳倒，比在坛子里一天三遍地念要有用多了。

应该继续争取CBC的关注和调查。这不但有助于真相大白于天下，对当事人的家人走出阴影继续正常生活也会有帮助。很难想象背着这末沉重的包袱将来如何生活。 -buug(Crouching Tiger); 2009-7-4 (#5393678@0)

oldyou probably can answer your question. The media I tried to bring up the issue showed no interest as soon as I told them I had no personal contact information for the victim family. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5394098@0)
是啊，他应该表个态。这么多关心你们的华人呢，如果是因为担心将来孩子养育方面的资金来源会受到影响，有大家帮助呢，还差每个月的千八百元的抚养费吗？ -goldensands(Dream); 2009-7-6 {282} (#5395501@0)
事情都到拉这步，如果真的冤屈，说出来还能讨回个公道，为孩子的将来成长发育也有好处。同时也会让May11之类的对此事件误解严重的人们，也不再继续唱反调拉。

那个爸爸，应该勇敢地站出来阐明真相。加拿大是法制国家，不会因为你说啦真相伤及拉某个组织或个人，而受到迫害吧。那就回国，人活一口气。

可是他保持沉默就能换来未来的平静吗？ -goldensands(Dream); 2009-7-5 (#5393782@0)

it is his decison and we have to respect him. I don't have his phone number but even if I did, I would probably don't knwo if I should call him. I think oldyou was right not to disturb him at this point. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-5 (#5394188@0)

如果是我，我会打电话，让他知道有这么个渠道可以有希望申冤。如果他也认为这个案子是冤枉的，是ＣＡＳ的错误，我会鼓励他站出来。当然，如果他的看法不一样，那就是另外一回事了。 -kqc(海市); 2009-7-5 {98} (#5394474@0)
既然要联系媒体，联系政府，那肯定需要当事者直接站出来才行。否则联系了，又不去通知当事者，没有意义。

如果你与那位牧师联系，你会理解为什么丈夫没站出来。第一，你需要了解一位有两个幼小孩子的父亲，突然丧偶后的健康及劳累繁忙。每一位经历过突然丧偶的人都知道，半年内根本不会有正常的饮食及睡眠。哪怕是山珍海味摆在面前也吃不下。 -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5395612@0)

这里出没的疯狗、苍蝇，以及CAS职业的和义务的宣传队员，使我羞于以rolia网友的身份去联系家属，这是我私人的考虑。 -oldyou(); 2009-7-6 (#5395628@0)

没必要以rolia网友的身份吧？以你个人的名义就可以。你也不代表rolia所有网友，所以就别费脑筋犹豫了。 -kqc(海市); 2009-7-6 (#5396702@0)
"疯狗、苍蝇" - who do you think you are? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5396972@0)
你吃饱了太撑了，管好你的老婆，你的儿子吧，人家的家事管你P事，万一哪个老公也跳楼了，就是你逼的。 -may11(May); 2009-7-6 (#5397221@0)

每夜能睡眠一个小时就不错，而且还要处理小孩子们突然丧母的严重反应。孩子们也睡不好觉，会在半夜醒来找妈妈，白天也会不停地找妈妈。这些以足以是这位父亲精疲力竭。第二，教会现在在帮他，没有教会的人力帮助他根本无法承担此悲剧带来的严重后果。 -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5395625@0)

you are beating the bush around while avoiding his point: "需要当事者直接站出来". at least he could authorize someone else to fight, if he was willing to fight. without him we other people cannot do anything because we are just shooting in dark. -win(秋天的菠菜); 2009-7-6 (#5395631@0)
Is the husband working now? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5397256@0)

但是基督教宣传谦卑，宽容，原谅，把一切交给神去处理。第三，现实地去想，CAS每年有14亿纳税人的钱在支持，专门做此生意。他一位遭此大难打击，拖着两个幼儿的父亲，财力，精力，时间什么都不具有，如何去做？ -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5395637@0)

The key question is if the husband believed CAS did anything wrong and if he did, we need to understand what he want to complain about CAS and did he have any evidence to support his complain? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 {352} (#5397523@0)
So far, the only complain from the father that I read from newspaper was CAS didn't call him when his baby was taken away.

And my question is if the victim told CAS about his contact info. He can't blame CAS didn't call him if the victim didn't tell CAS about his contact info.

Do we know who eventually told the father about the incident?

居于榜首的人生三大灾难：幼年丧母(父)，中年丧妻(夫)，老年丧女(子)。此三大灾难就这样同时地，不该发生地降临到这个家庭。希望大家能出于人道，基于人性地考虑。 -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5395651@0)

I am very sorry about the family and especially about the father. The only thing that I don't agree is who/ what caused this disaster. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5395695@0)

这个问题太简单了，是命运，是人的性格，不移民什么事情都不会发生，自不量力移民失败的好例子，家庭问题必然是家庭成员的问题，这个家庭已经发展到这种地步，当然主要责任在丈夫，和CAS有什么P关系，除了CAS要帮助他们家庭，没有看见任何其他的亲人帮助他们 -may11(May); 2009-7-6 (#5397211@0)

这是你猜测的还是那位当事人自己的想法？我想这些天大家已经见够了太多猜测了，但是却没个准确的说法。至于以上的每个理由，其实都可以找出办法解决。但是关键是他自己的想法和意愿是什么。 -kqc(海市); 2009-7-6 {22} (#5396713@0)
另外，您又是谁的马甲？
什么是人性，是谁的错误就是谁，责任是推迟不了的，如果说这个女人精神正常，你们都不正常，不要搞得跳楼，去看医生吧 -may11(May); 2009-7-6 (#5397216@0)

如果你曾听过CAS的讲座，你会知道护士打电话前根本不知道她的电话会使小孩被抓走及其他严重后果。她以为她的电话会使CAS帮助母亲作些家务。但报告后什么严重后果都不是她所能控制的. -fairness(直言执言); 2009-7-6 (#5397185@0)

太搞笑了吧，那个白痴护士认为打电话给CAS可以帮助搞家务，你的精神也有问题吧，看医生，吃药吧 -may11(May); 2009-7-6 (#5397224@0)
I didn't attend the CAS的讲座. So did the nurse who reported this case to CAS actually attend the CAS的讲座 and tell her side of story? -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5397231@0)

正常人都知道了，护士打电话一定是医生要求护士打的 -may11(May); 2009-7-6 (#5397246@0)

it depends if the nurse is from hospital or family doctor clinic. If the nurse is from hospital; she might do it with her own free will. But I was surprised that she actually showed up in a CAS 讲座. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5397248@0)
May11, did you work for CAS? Someone said you did. -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5397250@0)

他们还说你是轮子，5毛党！！！ -may11(May); 2009-7-6 (#5397262@0)

Why did they say that? Even if you are CAS worker, so what? The thing is if CAS did anything wrong or not! -hkchan(0); 2009-7-6 (#5397265@0)

人家说亚马逊的一只蝴蝶煽动一下翅膀，就可能在遥远的北美引发一场风暴，如果北美有人在风暴中丧生了，不能就此为依据判亚马逊的那只蝴蝶死刑。 -baalinca(三碗不过冈十点不上网); 2009-7-6 {294} (#5396278@0)
医生觉得有问题给CAS打电话是法律要求的，是职责所在；如果CAS员工是按照法律规定的程序带走孩子，那CAS也没有责任。还是对医生和CAS员工的行为有异议，可以诉诸法律，加拿大的法律远远不是完美的，但是相对是公正，我相信不比地球上任何一个其他国家差多少。如果对加拿大的法律系统没有信心了，那真的就没有办法了。

说老实话哟，我对这个司法体系，的确不是很敢信任捏～～成本太高！连本地人都轻易不敢官司。因为：没钱继续打下去，你可能啥也得不到，除了律师的帐单～～都说赌本越大，输的概率越小（至少可以不断APPEAL嘛），一点不错。 -ignoreme(别当真); 2009-7-6 (#5396320@0)

是啊，说来说去，还是有钱最好！ -vetra(豆泡果之多泡泡); 2009-7-6 (#5396375@0)
我本人在加拿大和中国都没打过官司，但是这里网友跟警察打告票官司赢了的不少，国内你几时听到跟警察打官司的？ -baalinca(三碗不过冈十点不上网); 2009-7-6 (#5396416@0)

兄弟，交通告票～～做这个的专家不需要是律师～～就一个赌警察不来的福利。警察来了，你看法官信你还是信警察。只要你没有铁证，法官只相信“专业人士”。 -ignoreme(别当真); 2009-7-6 (#5396500@0)

我上过一次庭，警察来了，开庭前主动认错，告票取消。 -szs11(Hedge); 2009-7-6 (#5396558@0)

还是证明了法官相信专业人士。上次有个兄弟，警察没来，法官和翻译嘀咕几句，就让他走，一句话都木法说。我还在力挺他至少有认罪的权力～～警察不来，连罪都无法认，法官根本就不相信群众呀！ -ignoreme(别当真); 2009-7-6 (#5396571@0)

上庭是个申冤的地方。要是警察没做错，法官也没办法免掉罚单，否则法律就成了空话了。大多数去上庭的，都不冤，警察也就是不撒谎，这是个事实。你当法官也是同样的结果。 -szs11(Hedge); 2009-7-6 (#5396612@0)
认罪的还来上什么庭 -kqc(海市); 2009-7-6 (#5396718@0)

哈，你不知道？大部分去的，就是要减罪，倒不是不认罪～～或者等警察他丈母娘正好住院这样的大运咯～～ -ignoreme(别当真); 2009-7-6 (#5396984@0)

@San Francisco

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